Yesterday
sUjAiRsM
sUjAiRsM
Hello,

I have a line of horses that are 33.3% each of Nokota, PSH and Argentinean Criollo (under the of Spanish Thirds affix, https://www.howrse.com/elevage/fiche/affixe?id=1808597).

I have 9 generations of PSH, but when I've bred the 10th generation the foals have all been Nokota (see offspring of F9 Caput mortuum https://www.howrse.com/elevage/fiche/?id=60251194). Then breeding two of these Nokotas has resulted in PSH offspring again.

So my question is how is the foal's breed determined in this case where there is no dominant breed and both parents are classified as the same breed? Clearly it's not guarunteed that the offspring will be the same as the parents, so it random and I just need to keep trying to get PSH foals, or is there some rule that means I will never get a 10th generation PSH?

Any info is greatly appreciated!
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  • Yesterday
    Legacy Ann
    Legacy Ann
    This isn't a percentage I've experimented with much, but at a cursory glance I'd say there could be a hidden decimal in there that's causing one breed to be higher, even though we only see 33.3 for all of them. It is possible it could be random, and PSH has gotten lucky so far in beating out the other 2.

    I've compared a few of the different pairings you've done, and various breed orders still produce PSH. That's something that could be looked at a bit more though, as breed order of the parents is the determining factor of other crosses. It's just difficult to look at when they're the same breed across both parents. It's easy to confuse yourselfdefault smiley (lol)
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  • Yesterday
    sUjAiRsM
    sUjAiRsM
    I was wondering about a hidden decimal, but just off the top of my head can't figure out why Nokota would suddenly be slightly more dominant in a line of PSH dominance.

    The breed order idea is definitely something to look into - the order for the first generation is PSH, Nokota, Criollo and it stays like this until generation 4, where Nokota is then listed first. Then it switches back to PSH first for gens 5 & 6 and to Nokota first for gen 8. So it seems like the number of generations between breed order switches is getting smaller.

    I fear I'm gonna have to make an Excel spreadsheet to help figure this out...
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  • Yesterday
    Hiram Farmer
    Hiram Farmer
    there's got to be a hidden decimal. remember 3X33.3 is only 99.9 so who knows what that .1 is
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  • Yesterday
    Hiram Farmer
    Hiram Farmer
    I looked at some of your horses in this affix and found it interesting the different order of breeds the one on top isn't always the breed it comes out as. I always thought the top breed listed was the breed the horse is considered. and I wonder if this list affects anything
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  • Yesterday
    Legacy Ann
    Legacy Ann
    Hiram Farmer wrote:

    I looked at some of your horses in this affix and found it interesting the different order of breeds the one on top isn't always the breed it comes out as. I always thought the top breed listed was the breed the horse is considered. and I wonder if this list affects anything


    The listed breed order is random if the percentages are the same, which means the top listed breed is not always the dominant breed. You can breed the same parents multiple times and get different breed order for the foals. It's fun to play with if you need a generation further down to be a specific breed out of the bunch.

    I did some more checking on the horses in the affix, and still can't find a pattern. For crosses where both parents are the same percentages, and all the same breeds, such as both eing 50/50, or 25/25/25/25, the foal takes the mother's last listed breed. Even though the percentages here appear the same, and I'd expect the foal to take the dam's last listed, that's not always happening, so I still lean towards hidden decimal, a random outcome, or it's following a different rule
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  • 08:44
    sUjAiRsM
    sUjAiRsM
    Thanks everyone for taking the time to investigate!!

    I've been back through the crossings to work out the exact % of each breed - the % of Nok & PSH is exactly the same (33.34961...) but Criollo is slightly less (33.30078). So that would explain why I only get PSH or Nokota foals.

    I'm still not sure why I've only got PSH for the first 9 generations and then Nokota for the 10th and back to PSH for the 11th - could just be down to chance. I guess I just need to keep breeding to see if I can spot a pattern. default smiley :d
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